Candid and Cringe

Ep. 009
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[00:00:00] Thuy Doan: Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Candid and Cringe, a podcast about growth and the roller coaster of life. This week, we are going to talk about friendship breakups. Which, I think is a nice segue from the previous episode, which was about boundaries. I mentioned in that episode that I could talk about boundaries all day long,

[00:00:40] and one of the ways that I assert my boundaries is to break up with friends no matter how dramatic and no matter how insignificant - usually when I feel like it's no longer a fit for me - no matter how [00:01:00] many tears, no matter how much rage. Breakups should be proactive. I think people need to do a lot less ghosting and a lot more snipping. Before we begin,

[00:01:17] let's talk about... let's get on the same page about what friendship breakups are. So, I guess if you hear the word breakup in general, what do you think of? A romantic relationship maybe? Um in a romantic breakup, two people have been dating for a however long and it gets to the point where someone or both people don't want to be in that relationship anymore.

[00:01:43] Whether they fallen out of love with them, whether they're in love with them, but they realized they're not compatible, they're in love with them but not happy... breakup. Cheating, abuse... breakup. [00:02:00] So it's the end of a relationship. In my opinion, you can also have a breakup that is platonic. That is not romantic.

[00:02:10] So a friendship breakup is the end of a friendship by one or both parties. I want to talk about three different situations where I broke up with a friend. The format that we'll go with is, you know, like what, what, how was the relationship like, you know, how did I feel during it? What was our connection?

[00:02:34] How did we meet maybe... the context of the relationship. I'll probably use the word, relationship and friendship interchangeably. And then, what happened to, for it to get to the point where I... cause in all cases I was the person that broke it off... how did it get to the point where I felt like and decided to go through with a friendship breakup?

[00:02:58] Is it possible that it [00:03:00] never needed to occur? We'll discuss that. How do you know it needs to occur? Is it possible that you can become friends again after you break up with a friend? We will talk about all of those things. So let's go, I'm going to go in chronological order here. Person. I'm really going to try hard to keep this anonymous, just out of respect for those people.

[00:03:25] And out of my, out of respect for my own privacy. The point is to zero in on the characteristics of the friendship. On the feelings in the friendship... and not about who it was and what kind of person they were. Okay. So the first one was somebody that I went to school with. For all intents and purposes, we got along nicely.

[00:03:52] They were a very nice person. We had mutual friends, you know, it wasn't like they were a random [00:04:00] person who was like once or twice removed from me. We were friends. Uh, we had meals every now and that actually together one-on-one. Uh, they had a partner at that time, but I think they, you know, it was all Gucci.

[00:04:16] It was all Gucci. So, and we had a good relationship. So we would meet up for like lunch or dinner every now and that even after, uh, that person was not so directly involved with my circle of friends or our circle of friends. At some point, it was a weird thing. It was a weird thing where I got to the point where I realized that every time I was about to go hang out with this person, it was like, ugh, this again.

[00:04:48] Um, and then I would go to it and it would always be like, not bad. Right. It was always better than I thought it was going to be. But I, I think where... the fact that it kept [00:05:00] happening... To me, that is a signal that something is off. Sometimes, sometimes that is a signifier that the other person is bad. In this case that wasn't the case.

[00:05:14] He was a nice, he was a nice person. I didn't think that there was anything wrong with me per se, if only based on the fact that, that person's still wanted to hang out with me. But I didn't really feel like I was... that it could be what it, what it could be. And I chalked it up to, maybe we don't have enough in common and maybe that's why this feels like more effort than it needs to be.

[00:05:46] Now I want to clarify something here. Relationships, platonic or not, take effort. Familial relationships, take effort. Romantic relationships take effort. Platonic relationships take effort. [00:06:00] Business relationships take effort. But if you don't feel good about it and you're like borderline enjoying your time and it takes effort, I think it says that may be the effort is not worth the outcome.

[00:06:19] Not to make it, you know, about min- maxing your, your intangible connections with people. But that's just a way to look at it. Ultimately what happened was I ended up texting this person that I didn't think that we... this is the only way that I could put into words then... that I didn't think of that we had enough in common.

[00:06:44] They didn't agree, but ultimately that I didn't think we should meet up anymore. Now you might think that, or you might ask me, why was it necessary to do that? [00:07:00] Right? Couldn't you have just let it die off? And my answer is no, I could not. Why? Because if I didn't say anything. This person would have continued to ask me to hang out.

[00:07:22] That's the first way that I assess whether it's worth proactively breaking up with a friend. If you already know, if you already know that it is not worth being friends with this person anymore, specifically, if, you know it is not worth putting in the finite amount of time and energy that you have in a given day or even twice or once a year,

[00:07:58] and [00:08:00] it's going to keep happening without you doing anything about it, then you need to do something about it. That's my opinion. So I broke it to this, this wonderful person. This wonderful person who, by the way, paid respects to my parents and to me and my family, when my parents passed. They are a good person.

[00:08:23] This is not any, this has nothing to do with their character. But broke it to this person. Of course, if the feeling is not mutual, it doesn't go super well. But I think of all of the friendship, breakups, breakups that I have done, it probably went the second best. We don't talk anymore. We haven't, since. Uh, sometimes I wonder how they are.

[00:08:47] Sometimes. I wonder if they've talked to our mutual friends about how crazy I, I... crazy or rigid or horrible the person I am [00:09:00] to our mutual friends. But that's just a, that's just a thought in passing. But we are, I would like to think, considering they showed up to my parents' funeral, I think that we are on cordial terms.

[00:09:18] Um, there's a part of me that if I ever saw them again, preferably one-on-one not with their partner, be like, you know, how are you doing these days? Like, I don't want to be so arrogant as to be like, ah, that person is hung up about our friendship breakup from six years ago. I. I mean, I'm kind of arrogant, but I'm not that arrogant.

[00:09:40] There's a part of me that would like to ask mainly because I want to, I don't know, I'm not at a 100% a-hole. When I want to make sure that if there's any like lingering hurt, I resolve that. But maybe it's all fine. Maybe it's all fine. The second friendship breakup was very interesting. One, [00:10:00] because we weren't even friends, in my view anyway.

[00:10:05] So this was another person that I went to school with. At some point, I moved away from my hometown and this person also moved away from their hometown, uh, our hometown. Uh, and we moved to an area coincidentally, that was sort of near each other. We were not friends, really. Like we knew each other. When we were at school, we were friendly with each other and I sorta knew what was going on with this person because you know, Facebook and all that stuff.

[00:10:31] I knew that they were having trouble. With work. I knew that they were having trouble with finances, and I know what it's like to be an Asian-American woman with a super projective dad and trying to find your independence that way and struggling with it, especially in those first few years when you're fresh out of school and [00:11:00] trying to make ends meet.

[00:11:02] And trying to climb up that ladder and make more money. So I empathized... sympathized... both with them, watching them struggle, and I felt bad for them. I knew that I was really good at, uh, writing resumes. I knew I was really good at social media and connecting with people. So I felt like maybe there's a way that I could help them.

[00:11:30] Um, and I remember, I think I was the person despite us not being like close friends or anything, going out of my way to offer, to meet them at a coffee shop and help them with their resume and with their link. At the time I didn't know that I was doing too much, like to the point where someone might feel uncomfortable about it, or to the point where I was sending a very strong signal of care that didn't really exist.

[00:11:58] But [00:12:00] at the time I do remember that person saying like, why would you go so far for me? Not because we have a deep connection or anything, I just feel bad. And I could do something about it and you don't have a lot of support. But anyways, I met, I ended up meeting up with this person at a coffee. And helping them with the resume.

[00:12:17] And I don't regret this at all. I think that they're in a better place. But I helped them with their resume. I helped them with their LinkedIn. And by the end of that coffee chat coffee session, the person said something along the lines of, you know, maybe we should hang out again. And I just remember being a hundred percent certain from this one time that we've hung out together

[00:12:44] post secondary post post secondary school, that this was not good vibes. And I did not want to hang out with this person again. Now I am pretty, I would say that I'm like 90% against [00:13:00] ghosting. I think it's cowardly. I think a lot of people could do better in their lives by having very forward and direct, but tactful communication with other people. With the 10% exception for situations where you fear retaliation or your safety.

[00:13:23] But when this person said to me, maybe we should hang out again, my response right then and there was, honestly, I don't think that's a good idea. I don't think we're very compatible. Um, so I don't see value in us hanging out again. And their response was the best response that I ever got. And it's the best friendship, quote, unquote, a breakup that I've ever had.

[00:13:52] They said to me, they said to me, okay, great, because, [00:14:00] and this is not verbatim. Let's just say it's paraphrase. I don't want to put words into anyone's mouth, but this is the essence. They said, I'm glad you said that because I was feeling the same way. And do you know what? If I didn't say anything that person wouldn't have said anything! They would have just like, oh, maybe what it worked out.

[00:14:23] Maybe I should like, hang out with her like two, three more times and see if I really dislike her. No. I know it's not going to work out. Granted. I acknowledge that I'm kind of rigid, but rigid is good for extreme cases. Is this an extreme case? Eh, I really didn't want to hang out with them again, but yes, that's what they said to me.

[00:14:46] And from there we parted ways. We parted ways. I think I tweeted about it too. I was just like best friendship break up ever! Several years later, fast forward to this year actually, they reached out to [00:15:00] me on LinkedIn. I think they reached out to me last year as well. And they just let me know, like, gey, I still remember what you did for me helping me with my resume and LinkedIn stuff.

[00:15:09] I got a job and I genuinely loved to hear that. And maybe that's because I have a, a hero complex or a savior complex or something. I acknowledge that. But they messaged me and told me the good news. And I was like, I'm happy for you. I sure hope that you're not struggling anymore. You deserve to be happy.

[00:15:29] Like, I don't give a shit if you're not my BFF or something like that, or my brother or sister, you deserve happiness. Now, can I work on the amount of effort that I give to people? Yes. It's my savior complex guys. Oh, by the way, I'm trying not to say guys, so y'all, I'm sorry. They reached out to me. Sometime recently

[00:15:48] they reached out to me again. Actually it might've been the same time, but they let me know some update. And at the end they tacked on that maybe we should [00:16:00] meet up with each other, like old friends. And I got to tell you, I laughed a little because I do not consider this person to be a friend. And also we agreed to not meet anymore.

[00:16:17] Granted people can change and maybe they want it to shoot their shot at like another shot at friendship. But it was just like, no, I'm, I'm very much like... the first time is done. There's no second time. And it's not that I don't believe in second chances. It's like, I don't know. I'm weird. Like if I like somebody in high school and for whatever reason, we never worked...

[00:16:43] timing or someone stops liking each other or the other person didn't like them ever. And then six years later s... the other person who didn't like that person before ends up liking that person. I cannot like get the feeling again. There's just like, [00:17:00] it's not, it's closed. We're done... the never... too... it's locked.

[00:17:04] And that's the same thing I think with most bonds, most decisions. There is an outlier. And the outlier is the third. And what time will tell if it's really an outlier. But yeah, the person came back and I wished them well, and I hope that they will be happy in their life, but I don't think that they can be happy in their lives with me in it.

[00:17:29] Third example. This is the only example that, well, it kind of happens in a school setting, but, uh, not really. Uh, this is someone that I met later in life, outside of school. Um, this person was ultimately somebody that I didn't think... like upon first meeting them... I didn't think that I would get along with. Like, if I had to bet money, I would bet money that we wouldn't get along.

[00:17:55] Uh, this person just seemed too peppy, too [00:18:00] smiley, too optimistic and too emotional. I am like, I'm like an extreme person. I'm either too chill to the point of like apathy or I am bouncing off the walls and screaming about something that I like and being like highly embarrassing in public. I'm temperamental.

[00:18:20] I don't think of my... well, I'm emotional now, but like I'm quick to anger. Um, I don't know, it vibed girl scout to me and I wasn't into it. But somehow, somehow we got along to the point where we hung out a lot. And I was actually in her life. For her. Supporting her genuinely when she had a very difficult personal time.

[00:18:48] Okay. No regrets once again. I think I was in two... I was there for her in two different, uh, difficult personal times. And again, I, I cared about [00:19:00] her and I wanted her to know that someone gave a shit about her. But at the same time, something bothered me about it. Similar to the first friendship breakup, there came a point where I noticed that I wasn't enjoying... not even that, that I would dread going to hang out with this person.

[00:19:29] Somehow it snuck up on me. It was, it was very gradual. I guess like there was something off. But it was so minuscule that it took several times of it to occur, to build to a point where it was like, I don't like this. But the way that I noticed was this person would call me and I would be like, do I pick this up?

[00:19:49] Do I pick this up? And that was a, that was a big signifier to me that something had to be done. I ended up... I don't like to just jump the gun on the [00:20:00] first try because you never know. Maybe you're having a bad. This is another way that I tell. But I need to leave it for a little bit. See if it happens a second time, depending on, you know, sense of urgency and the weight of the feelings.

[00:20:15] But I wait to see if it happens a second time. And if I still feel the same way, if it happens a second time and I feel the same way, then I have to do something about it. And that's what happened. So I ended up essentially scheduling uh, we should talk about this thing. Having a dramatic chat in the car.

[00:20:42] This one went the worst. Uh, like I said before, if it's not mutual, it's not going to go well. No matter how well you put it. That's just the nature of breaking news to someone who doesn't want the news to happen. [00:21:00] But I let this person know, and she was genuinely confused and I understand why she would confuse, be confused.

[00:21:06] It was just like, where did this come from? And I thought you said everything was fine. Now I can see on their end, why they would think, like, why would you withhold this from me and tell me now? And why would you say that it was fine when it wasn't? And I explained to them, or at least I tried, that I thought things were good.

[00:21:29] Like I said, this thing that was bothering me was so miniscule, miniscule... that I had to get to a certain size for me to know, like, oh, I don't like that. Yeah. I won't go into details as to what was sad over time or what occurred in our relationship over time that caused me to reach this point. But the important thing to note is that feeling.

[00:21:58] Of off-ness. [00:22:00] Of dread. Of why the f*ck am I doing this? And is this even worth it? Those are the things that you have to ask. Okay. So actually in this case, we did not break up really. We had a hard talk that ended up with me suggesting like... it's possible that we are hanging out way too much for me. Maybe it is that I still want to be friends and maybe I still care about you.

[00:22:31] I probably do, but this is too often and I need time to recharge. And sometimes your energy is too much for me, especially when all you bring is negativity and angst. So we reduced the amount of times we were hanging out. Eventually, it reached the point where I was just never. Uh, [00:23:00] and I forget how much time passed.

[00:23:01] I want to say it was like, we were not speaking to each other for a year or two. And one day out of the blue, I get a call from this person. First thing I noticed was, oh, I don't feel dread when I see this person's name on my phone. That's the first thing I noticed picked it up. I was like, I'm kind of surprised your calling me.

[00:23:25] And they said that they were thinking about me. Um, we chatted, I don't remember if we talked immediately about what happened several years ago in that call, but eventually it was brought up. It's like resolved now, but now we do hang out at a small suitable cadence for the pair. And I think that's, I would say that's roughly twice a year now, twice a year.

[00:23:54] And it's, it's going fine. Going fine. I would say I would [00:24:00] call this a breakup that renewed itself in its more mature and healthy form. It is possible, but it depends, depends on a lot of things. But I would say that it, uh, worked out. Are they like my best friend ever? No. Are they someone that I care about?

[00:24:20] Yeah. Are they someone that I'm willing to go catch up with over a meal a once or twice a year. Sure. So those are three friendship breakups in my life. Those are actually the only friendship breakups in my life. But there... I consider them to be like monumental moments in my life. And I look at them fondly, to be honest, even though some of them were awkward and there were, you know, sad, confused, frustrated feelings on one side... and also anxiety on my end because you know, I don't want to hurt anybody. But you, you also need to look out [00:25:00] for your wellbeing and sometimes good people are not good for your wellbeing.

[00:25:09] I think sometimes people conflate value to one's life on the supposedly objective premise that somebody has. No, like you cannot assess somebody in a vacuum and say, subjectively, that they're good for you. You need to pay attention to how you feel when you're in the friendship. When you're in that relationship.

[00:25:38] Okay. And it's not just like, oh, this is hard. We should break up. You need to ask if it's worth the fit. And if you are a fit. Long-term. Unless you like short-term relationships. Cause I don't. Something you need to think about. [00:26:00] Now, are there situations where I think ghosting is good and perfectly reasonable?

[00:26:05] There are, there are. So for example, if, uh, someone you do not have a prior, uh, friendship with. They're a hundred percent a total rando. They... asked for your number. Maybe you give it to them because you feel unsafe. You could have also given, given a fake number, but if you decide to ghost them after... maybe it was a power play... I used to do that... but you do not have an established relationship with that person.

[00:26:38] I don't think someone who is a stranger is owed an explanation. And especially because they're a stranger, you might feel unsafe with them. So I think in those cases, it's okay to ghost. Now, if you have a friendship with somebody of like 10 years, eight years, [00:27:00] five years, and they develop romantic interest in you, they ask you on a date. You go on the date and it wasn't a vibe....

[00:27:12] I feel like you should be respectful and give them an explanation because there is a basis. You have a basis for respect and you know each other. Right. And the third thing is if... despite whatever context there is with your friendship or how long, you know, each other, or how you feel about it, If this, if unwanted advances, whether romantic or not are going to continue without your intervention and not intervening will cause you stress, you need to do something.

[00:27:56] Okay. Either speak up [00:28:00] or if you don't want, if you're not confrontational or you really, really don't want confrontation, you need to block the shit out of that person. Block that person, avoid the crap out of them and hard-stop it that way. But if you can, I really, really think more people need to have direct conversation about their boundaries with people and not just like, hey, it's it's not good for me.

[00:28:29] Yeah. That's it. I think, especially if you have the words, I think it's, it's good to tell them where they could improve. Although that is a tricky situation with the whole unsolicited, like advice thing, which I hate honestly, but I think at least the reason, like, I don't think we're very compatible rather than I just don't think it's going to work is, is better than nothing.

[00:28:53] I don't think you need to say, I didn't like the way that you sipped your water or I didn't like the way that... you don't [00:29:00] have to do that. But I think more people need to be talking about compatibility and making it, and thinking of it as a reasonable reason... a fair reason to not pursue a relationship or a friendship with someone.

[00:29:18] I think more of that needs to happen. I think more of that needs to happen with your family members. You do not need to continue a relationship with someone just because you share blood. Doesn't matter if they're an aunt or your grandma or your parents, or your sister or your brother. More of that needs to happen.

[00:29:41] I'm hoping that by having these candid conversations about friendship, breakups, that more people can recognize moments in their lives when they should... or could, if it's in the future... proactively cut off [00:30:00] a bond with someone. Not in the unhealthy, like Sasuke trying to cut off all of his bonds with his friends...

[00:30:08] this is for the weebs. My fellow weebs. My fellow fellow Naruto lovers. Uh, I'm not saying pull a Sasuke okay. I'm not saying pull an Itachi okay. But by having these conversations, I hope that you can sooner make these decisions for a healthier life for you. Okay. Or if you want to spill the tea on some of your interesting friendship breakups, uh, in the event that they were toxic.

[00:30:41] In my case, I wouldn't, they're all good people. One person's personality was a little much for me. If you want to spill the tea, you can, uh, let me know on Twitter or on Instagram at candidandcringe. In the future, we will talk more about [00:31:00] breakups slash boundaries setting slash relationships. I still want to talk about parents.

[00:31:06] I still want to talk about family members, aka people share your last name. And your bloodline. But for now, this was friends and breaking up with them. Have a great, great day everyone. Toodaloo. .